My highly unconventional approach for hiring people (Read: I don’t really care about your resume)
"I listen very carefully with my eyes…” — RE:BOOKS
Interviewer: Are you good at staying calm in a stressful environment?
Me: I’m not good at staying calm in relaxing situations.
Woot! RE:BOOKS is growing! I recently hired two full-time female graduates from a well-respected publishing program in Toronto.
But wait! I didn’t hire them because they are graduates from a renowned Publishing Program, or because they have a Masters in Canadian Literature and a Minor in Editing (and let’s throw in an Olympic medal as well, because why not?)
I’m not sure, to be completely honest, when I was interviewing people, if I even asked what they were reading, or why they wanted to work in publishing, or even why they wanted to work at RE:BOOKS specifically.
To be brutally honest, I only skimmed resumés before meeting potential employees.
And, by skimming, I do truly spend more time putting my hair in a messy bun, whipping off my bra, and putting on sweats —meaning I knew who I wanted to hire in less than 90 seconds, after meeting them. Why?
I listen very closely with my eyes. I know, it sounds creepy. But hear me out..
There were two specific noteworthy “skills” on both of these specific resumés of my new hires that grabbed my attention — skills that had absolutely nothing to do with publishing at all.
So, in this edition, I’m going to share what I look for when hiring, specifically at REBOOKS, a modern day start-up publishing house. What I look for may will surprise you. (Hint? Have you ever uttered the words, “So, you want a Big Mac Combo to go? Would you like to upgrade to large fries?”)
Sure, I am technically “The Boss” [Insert required hashtag #BossBabe] but I’m 100 percent pretty positive I was more nervous interviewing prospective employees than the interviewees, hoping to land a job upon meeting me.
My two new hires — Emilee and Chloe — probably walked out after their one interview with me, somewhat shell shocked, thinking, “What the f**k just happened? I researched and prepared for hours for this interview. She didn’t vet my references. She didn’t ask pertinent questions to get an idea of my capabilities or work ethic. She didn’t ask why I thought I’d be a good fit. She didn’t even ask if I enjoy books. But…She still offered me the job!”
Sure, I treated their resumes more like outlines and, frankly, if I knew how to read tarot cards, I may have hired them based on the outcome, that’s how much little I cared about their cover letters.
It’s not that I didn’t prepare at all. I did ask Google things like, “Questions To Make Sure You’re Hiring The Best and Brightest!” And, “Ten Ways To Ensure You Always Hire the Right Person,” for exactly 23 minutes, before I quit reading that B.S..
Almost all the questions that, apparently, I am supposed to ask in an interview that would “guarantee a good hire” were boring AF and, in this day and age, frankly just plain stupid old-fashioned.
Do I really have to still ask, “Where do you see yourself in five years?” after the last three years we’ve been through?
Plus, am I the only one hiring in publishing that recognizes that, in this day and age, it’s hard to find employees who will remain loyal to you — or your company — for five years anyway?
Am I also the only one, who runs a publishing company, that knows the average Millennial will have multiple jobs in their lifetimes. That this generation is literally called “The Job Hopping Generation.” They seem to like having multiple jobs. So what’s the point of asking, “Where do you see yourself in five years?” (Do you see my point?)
If it were me who was asked that question (that apparently recruiters and human resources still ask) I’d try to not be me make a joke, and probably would blurt out something offensive funny like, “I see myself sitting in that much larger and brighter corner office we passed on the way walking to this office we’re in now. Oh, I also see myself asking much more entertaining and informative questions.”
Which, surely, would get me the job escorted out of the building. Oh, do I have so many comebacks for all these old-fashioned stupid hiring questions like…
Interviewer: What would you say is your biggest weakness?
Me: Cheesecake? I would probably say that I can be indecisive at times.
Interviewer: Will that be a problem for you in this position?
Me: Not at all! Well, maybe? I’m not sure! I don’t know. I DON’T KNOW!
Or…
Interviewer: So, why do you want to work here?
Me: Um, because you’re hiring? Also, I am passionate about buying expensive brand name toilet paper, so pay cheques are cool.
Or…
Interviewer: Hi! So, you’re here for an interview for the job posting?
Me: I sure am!
Interviewer: So, do you have any experience in this?
Me: I sure do! This is, like, my 89th interview!
Or..
Interviewer: So, tell me about yourself.
Me:. Do I have to? I really want to work here.
I know one editor in publishing who always asks potential employees, “Who is your favourite Beatle?” (“Ringo” is not the right answer and you will not get hired.)
In any case, on the first day my new hires started at the RE:BOOKS offices —a.k.a where I also sometimes sleep — I asked my two new Executive Editors if they’d like a coffee.
One responded, “Sure, I’ll have a coffee.”
“Great! Follow me,” I said, as I walked her over to the Keurig machine in the kitchen, showed her the coffee pods, how to put them in, and what buttons to press.
And, I got to spew some publishing wisdom!
“Lesson number one in publishing! Don’t ever be the coffee girl,” I said, as I showed them how to make their own coffee for the first and last time.
“Never be the one to offer to make, or offer to grab a coffee, on the way to work, especially to your higher ups, or especially your boss, especially on your first day,” I told them.
I’m pretty sure they were perplexed at this publishing lesson, but it’s true.
If you offer on your first day to make coffee, or bring a coffee to your bosses or colleagues, you’ll immediately become known as “The Coffee Girl.”
Others will take advantage of your generosity expect you to bring them coffee every single day for the rest of your life, or as long as you stay working at the company. (This goes for all women in any industry, unless you actually love making coffee, to which I would suggest getting a job at Starbucks. They probably pay more than publishing does, but unlike the publishing industry, you’d probably get a gig as a barista, based not on how well you can spell, but on how skilled you are at completely fucking up spelling names on the cups.
Can we take a moment to imagine how that interview would go down?
Starbucks Hiring Manager: So, how do you spell the name “Michelle?”
Interviewee: M-I-S-H-A-L-L-E
Starbucks Hiring Manager: Can you start Monday?
So lesson number one in working in a publishing house is, “Don’t become the coffee girl.”
Speaking of lessons, before I launched RE:BOOKS Publishing House, I went back to school in my mid-forties, to learn the business side of the book industry. Make no mistake, I didn’t want to go back to school. I always learn better actually doing than reading about what I’m supposed to be doing.
But I had been told, consistently, by the people I did know in book publishing that, in order for me to get a job within a publishing house, I absolutely needed — no ifs and or buts — to go back to school to study publishing.
I wouldn’t say it was a total waste of time or money. I had one especially amazing instructor who I proudly call my friend now. But I wouldn’t exactly say that it would have been way more fun, and money much more well spent, staying at The Ritz in South Beach for a few days instead either. It’s really nice there.
Plus, in publishing school, you learn very quickly which teachers just take portions out of the required reading books anyway, so technically I could have read the required reading books, while looking at cute cabana boys enjoying a turkey club by a pool in Miami.
I should haven’t listened to their advice. I should have listened to my gut, which had been telling me to forget about shelling out thousands of dollars to go back to school, and keep hustling with a resumé or networking.
Yet, I listened to all these pranksters publishers, instead, and went back to school as told.
Guess what?
You guessed correctly! I didn’t land one fucking job in any publishing house, not even for an unpaid internship, and I only landed one interview, which I made to round three, to which I did ask how many rounds of interviews there were (nine!)
At that point, I had to pull in a favour from a friend in publishing, asking them to reach out to another publisher who they are good friends with, and who had just posted a position that sounded like my dream job in a publishing house. My oh-so-kind friend e-introduced us and wrote, “She’d be a good hire.” Those were the exact words! That I would be a “good hire.” (Plus I had gone back to school!)
I only wish I could say I heard *crickets.* But, no, it was so much worse.
After the e-intro, I reached out to this small-dick publisher — you’ll see why I’m probably right calling him this — writing how I’d love to ask him just a few questions about the publishing landscape, adding that I wouldn’t take up more than 15 minutes of his time, and that I would work around his schedule.
Within minutes this small-dick publisher emailed back that, “Sorry. If I talk to you, then I would have to talk to everyone.”
I’m not kidding. That was his actual response. (I can show it to you on my phone, next time we’re together! You think I don’t keep receipts?)
I do know this small-dick dude enough to believe know there was no way in hell people were lining up to speak with him, let alone actually asking him for a 15-minute chat for advice — in other words? Doing a kind deed for someone aspiring to work behind the scenes in publishing? (Apparently he had time to write back immediately, so really how busy is this small dick fuck publisher?)
It took everything in my power not be me to not type back a response with an entire wall of only the laughing emoji, since it was one of the most idiotic replies I had ever received to a kind request for a quick call.
Plus, whenever this small-dick-fuck sees me at an event, he kinda cowers, turns away, leaving me to wonder if he thinks I’m a fucking porcupine who would start shooting off spikes as my defence mechanism if he got too close to me. (You can read about how men treat me, as a female publisher by clicking here later!)
I DO hope this small dick fuck publisher is reading this. After all, he never got to thank me for the “anonymous gift” I sent the following day, addressed specifically to him, at his office.
My “anonymous gift” was a copy of How To Win Friends And Influence People, along with a gift card that read, “Read this from front to back! Then read it again. XO Your Number One Fan!”
His refusal to speak with me was especially odd since — up until now —I had been nothing but kind to him. (As Taylor Swift sings, “I got smarter, I got harder in the nick of time. Honey, I rose up from the dead, I do it all the time. I got a list of names and yours is in red, underlined.”)
So what does one do, after getting rejected over and over — or no callbacks at all for an interview to work at any publishing house after going back to school as told?
As the saying goes, “Sometimes you just have to play the role of a fool to fool the Fool who thinks they are fooling you.” (Like, let’s say, after you find out one of your “instructors” completely lied on their LinkedIn profile, and to the class, told you your dream was ridiculous, failed you on every assignment. But the best? I was already doing what this instructor was teaching…in real life, helping edit books and giving feedback on a freelance basis.
Again, sometimes you just have to play the role of a fool to fool the Fool.
“Fuck it,” I thought. “I’ll start my own publishing company.”
Now, make no mistake, this was not an impulse decision. It was three years in the making and was born out of necessity, or maybe the haters who were my biggest motivators, because I also learned that while people are genuinely happy for you, at first, they are really only genuinely happy for you...to a point, especially in publishing it seems. I’ve had a lot of jobs, but none as competitive as publishing.
They may still be happy for you, but they also make it pretty fucking clear at least to me — did I mention I listen very well with my eyes? — they now see you as their competition, will steal your ideas, and stalk you on social media to see what you’re up to, even creating fake email accounts asking questions that someone like me — who pays attention to everything — can tell are just fishing for information.
I don’t mind. I think competition ups everyone’s game. With my new hires? They should see me as competition. In fact, I’m even wary of naming my hires, for fear that someone will scoop them away, even though they have no fucking idea why I hired them in the first place.
Still, I’m going to share a few reasons I hired Emilee and Chloe —two new Executive Editors at REBOOKS — because, I’m not a small dick fuck.
How To Get A Job In Publishing: The RE:vised Version
“Never Hire Someone You Can’t FiRE: I was told this by one publisher, when I asked if they would hire me, years ago. I’ve been pondering overthinking this quote ever since. Was it a compliment, meaning this publisher thought I was too good, and that I’d do a better job than them? Did they like me too much as a person, thus they would feel awful, if they had to fire me, if I was doing shitty work? Or was it an insult? Or a bit of both? Whatever the case, it’s true. As a boss, unfortunately, if you have to lay off people, or you realize they aren’t a good fit for your company, and they are your friend, it would be completely awkward to fire that person. And a job should never get in the way of a friendship. So, yes, never hire someone you can’t fire.
Would You Like Your RE:ceipt in The Bag? This brings me back to the small dick fuck publisher who refused to talk to me. Maybe he doesn’t like me, but maybe he’s just snobby AF, which brings me to why I hired my first freelancer, when I first launched RE:BOOKS. My first hire, Maya, had worked at Loblaws for years talking with customers about books. It didn’t hurt that she is one of the most avid readers I’ve ever met. What stuck out to me on Chloe and Emilee — my two new Executive Editors — resumés is not that they went to Publishing School or edited some magazine. I hired them based on the facts that one worked at McDonald’s and one works as a bartender. So, pretty much, people who can talk to other people, from all walks of life, (in various stages of soberness). If you can handle dealing with McDonald’s customers and sloppy drunks, then I believe you can speak with anyone. There is a lot of networking in publishing, so it’s helpful to have a staff that aren’t socially awkward AF. Plus, I think it’s super brave and honest, to put those jobs on their resumes. RE:BOOKS is all about non-snobby reads, so why wouldn’t I hiRE: non-snobby people — people who have no shame putting down they worked at a McDonald’s, which mind you, on their website they write, “At our best, we don’t just serve food, we serve moments of feel-good, all with the lighthearted, unpretentious, welcoming, dependable personality customers know and love.” It’s quite amazing that RE:BOOKS has the same values as McDonald’s.
Personality Matters: This may seem counterintuitive to my first point, but I need to like hanging out with whomever I hire. I don’t need to be BFFs with them, but I need to know that they can make me laugh, tell me about their weekend, share stories about their pets. (Even better, if they laugh at my totally inappropriate jokes, which they do.) As a publisher, I need to host a lot of book launches, as well as attend a lot of book launches, and I want to know that whomever I hire will be fun to hang out with at events like these.
Mentoring Mini-Mes: Again, forgetting entirely about their resumés, I asked myself, “Is this someone I would like to mentor?” Meaning, did I want to teach them? Did I want them to succeed? My gut said, yes! Yes, I want both Emilee and Chloe to succeed, so that played a part when I hiREd them both. I’m happy to teach them what I do know. One day, I may look back and say, “Look where they are now! I’m so proud!”
Tell Me That I’m Stupid: Well, not literally. But, based on our interviews, which were actually conversations, I hire people who have it in them to tell me that they think some of my ideas are just stupid (but in a nicer way.) When you hire someone who is brave enough to speak up, and make you think twice about your decision, it really does turn into a brainstorming session. Already, some of their ideas were, in fact, much better than mine and it’s because they have the confidence to speak the fuck up!
Cover Letters Are BullShit: Unless you are being hired by a computer, who can pick up the words or analytics that pick up the skills you’ve listed, I find that most cover letters are either unbelievable, exaggerated, somewhat suspicious, and honestly, not that good. I look past the odd typo, or grammatically incorrect cover letters, because, again, I think they are Bullshit and unreliable. Just send me a couple paragraphs in an email and I’m fine with that!
pRE:TTy Women: Yup, I only hire females and I only hire the pretty ones. (OMG DID SHE JUST SAY THAT?) Yup, my three full-time staff members, plus the numerous freelancers I hire, are all very good-looking! Why shouldn’t I surround myself with beauty, from having manicured nails when I type, to looking at my beautiful engagement ring when I scroll social media, to having weekly flowers delivered. The good news, here, is that I think all women are beautiful. (So don’t get your knickers in a knot!)
aRE: You Smarter Than Me?: Again, forgetting about their resumés, or where they went to school, I want to learn from my new hires. I think it’s important, at least when I’m hiring, that I can learn something from them as well. I actually like hiring young people — The Job Hopping Generation — because where others may see them as lazy, or worried they may leave the moment they have a bad day at work, they seem to have this whole work/life balance thing worked out. Yes, they are both extremely hard workers, go-getters, highly organized, forward thinking, with sick social media skills — which I all got out of just having a conversation with them, not from their cover letters — but I like the fact that they really do seem to work hard and play hard, they don’t work more hours than they are required to, they don’t respond to emails on weekends, and they don’t take things, or life, so seriously. Publishing is not a life or death industry, except for the death part. But you know what I mean. This is why one of my “interview” questions was, “Do you do yoga?” which happily, they do! Their chill vibe — even under extreme pressure — is an attractive skill to me when hiring. I need to learn, from them, how to work less, and enjoy life more, which they seem to have nailed. They seem pretty damn happy to me! Part of their job may be joining me for a noon-hour yoga class, right near my house/office, which actually goes back to #3 (which is that I have to like hanging out with you.)
And, so that’s some of what I look for when hiring at RE:BOOKS. Which reminds me! I need to go get office supplies yoga mats for my two new Executive Editors.
Until next time, flip your hair and flip the page (and maybe publishers should think about hiring someone who works at a cash register, instead of relying on whether they went back to school or not, when hiring in this modern age.
xo
Rebecca